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Second Shot

James Lemon

Well-known member
I am not trying to convince folk of anything at all. The facts speak for themselves!
Fair enough but what are the facts it wont impact transmission yet you are trying to convince me it will. The new vaccine is great but it wont stop the spread. Look at Eboli and how many times they have contained that, only to have it reemerge in the population again. What do we do, eliminate it in the wild by killing all the bats? Sars is thought to have made the leap to humans via a palm civet, a tree-dwelling jungle mammal that’s considered a delicacy in China. It also escaped from a Beijing lab twice . In the last 18 years there has been a few deadly outbreaks linked to wet markets. .Do we need to curb peoples appetite for bat soup?
 
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James Lemon

Well-known member
You’re way behind. Israeli data shows the vaccines prevent transmission!
I don't give a shit what their data says it may have the protentional to save peoples lives but it wont stop the spread from circulating, for a number of reasons. They may even spread it to the chickens and other farm animals or maybe the family pet?

 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
“I don't give a shit what their data says!”

Exactly, James. That’s the issue in a nutshell.

Trump and Pence had the same simplistic attitude and put themselves ahead of the experts.

Furthermore, I am not some enthusiast for vaccines. I am cautious with any research or promises for cures. That’s my training as a physician, Professor Microbiolog and Radiation Oncologist. I am humble. I promise the least and drive to deliver the most. I recognize my knowledge gaps. But I am still a pragmatic optimist.

Still, I refused an offer to apply to train for a the Space Program, I turned down a multi- million dollar private funding to focus on one woman’s Beast Cancer and lastly, I turned down down the most important opportunity in my life: a lucrative USA Army Virologist position to make a live Adenovirus vaccine against Acute Respiratory Disease of Recruits. That could have been the “golden break” in my research career, that one prays for: unlimited resources and pretty certain success. I had, however, learned of the contaminant monkey virus present in the live Polio Vaccine when I worked with Albert Sabin. That gave me pause. My oath is, “First do no harm!”

So from my Hard earned science background I should, after all, still be in a reasonably solid position to better understand and follow the experts of this pandemic.

You, however talk like a super-confident, articulate and most interesting, almost convincing apparently self-made “expert“ who might perhaps read the likes of “Popular Mechanics” and then preach to all and sundry.

Of course, that’s only my impression, as I am not at all qualified to explain your strong contrary and often dismissive opinions on the subject.

You did far better on “small Safe nuclear reactors”, as I am so ignorant of them and I take your word as being far more informed than mine! That was a very good topic. Surprised it has gone under the radar in the news for so long.

As to SARS Cov-2, I assure you we’ll immunize and stop the transmission of this virus and it’s current variants those that will appear henceforth.....

..... and I am sure we’ll also develop diverse effective therapeutics within the year!

Still, sadly, many hundreds of thousands more will die or suffer and be maimed for life, before we complete our battle.

Roughly 1.5 to 5% of every country on the planet! That’s a lot of extra unexpected tragic death!

No evidence of avian spread. If there was, we’d deal with that too!

Or it could suddenly die out. We have to see how the biology plays out!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
The John Hopkins and other National Epidemiological data for the USA, seriously underreports desths.

Read the Wall Street Journal revelations, State by State of thousands needed to be added per month!

Details here!
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
The John Hopkins and other National Epidemiological data for the USA, seriously underreports desths.

Read the Wall Street Journal revelations, State by State of thousands needed to be added per month!

Details here!
Early reports out of China put it as high as 7 percent. But that was based mostly on hospitalized patients, and by the time the wave hit the United States, epidemiologists believed it was closer to 2 to 3 percent. Now, factoring in asymptomatic infections, as well as mild cases that might not be part of official tallies, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention puts the mortality rate at 0.65 percent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/10/09/covid-mortality-rate-down/

DSC_8771_00001.jpg

Whatever the numbers are the vaccine will not stop the circulation. Whoever the experts are have done a poor job and probably caused more harm to people than they realize. You keep bringing up political agendas as if many others don't have an agenda maybe Trump & Pence didn't like Dr. Fauci ? Kary Banks Mullis received a Nobel Prize in chemistry for his invention of the polymerase chain reaction technique. He thinks Fauci is an idiot, liar and a con man and has no business being in the position that he is, he would probably agree with Trump & Pence. Go figure that many common folk have lost faith in their institutions.

 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
So we have found the great shining sun around which your “certain” ideas rotate faithfully.

That you believe in him and hold on in high esteem is a beautiful testimony to our weakness for delusional leaders!

Consider how many people believe in and follow Karl Marx, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and Donald Trump! Their children do the same as these ideas are infectious. They are called memes. Fanatics who hold these memes will kill and die for them!

Just because a person make one remarkable achievement, doesn’t make him/her a source of universal truth!

You are certainly in good company. Billions around the planet are similarly convinced of some guiding memes for their own personal trajectories in life!

Still let me address your source of wisdom here!

1. Participating in the development of an exploitation of the natural Replication enzymes of DNA was a wonderful contribution. But it was obvious to me that it would be done, like climbing Everest or reaching the moon or developing a pressure cooker. He worked for a company and had a commercial motivation to achieve that result.

That Nobel prize should, instead, have gone to all the scientists who discovered DNA sequencing and those who actually isolated and discovered the polymerases. After that it was simply a matter of exploitation and quite rational, like solving a Rubik’s cube. Once the cube was invented, children have worked out how to solve that puzzle again and again.

2. Your Guru was correct on ONE item: research often, [NOT always], gets directed to what we want to prove, so he is CORRECT, we are sometimes part of a “herd” of researchers trying to get funds for an idea, later proven false. I myself was convinced that Herpes Simplex type 2 was the cause of Cancer of Cancer of the Cervix in sexually active women. I was awards millions. It turned out that another DNA virus infecting sexually active people was the cause. But our HSV research funded much of that work too.

In my laboratory, it so happened, that NIH funding for my research on Herpes and Cervical Cancer, Totally paid for our discovery of the mode of action of the important anticancer drug, cis-platinum and In part the mutagenic effect of nitrous oxide anesthesia has on sperm of male anasthesiologists!

So yes, he may be correct as to what I call “the herd issue of us humans when we try to do science”, but that is because we are programmed to follow “Moses & Jesus like heroic figures” we trust. Still, our science was true enough a system to rid of us of our initial false ideas we had earlier carried as useless baggage!

3. The guy you linked to is a paranoid nut case in claiming there is no global warming or HIV science is false.

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
The John Hopkins and other National Epidemiological data for the USA, seriously underreports desths.

Read the Wall Street Journal revelations, State by State of thousands needed to be added per month!

Details here!
More stats:

The overall death rate from covid-19 has been estimated at 0.66%, rising sharply to 7.8% in people aged over 80 and declining to 0.0016% in children aged 9 and under.
The estimates, calculated by researchers in the UK, used aggregate data on cases and deaths in mainland China. Unlike other estimates, however, they adjusted for undiagnosed cases and the number of people in each age group of a population.

Covid 19 cases and death rates have fallen substantially here in Canada since January and around the world. Despite the fact that only 2% of the Canadian population has been vaccinated, why would the majority of people want to get a vaccination for something that has a high survival rate without any specialized treatment?

Vaccination would make sense for people in a high risk group but your death rate argument does not appear to be convincing enough? Your argument that vaccines will have an impact on cases and deaths does not appear to hold up either because here in Canada we don't have any vaccines with only 2% being vaccinated and we run out last week. So how do you and the experts bring this around when cases and deaths have been on a rapid downhill slide without vaccines?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
More stats:

The overall death rate from covid-19 has been estimated at 0.66%, rising sharply to 7.8% in people aged over 80 and declining to 0.0016% in children aged 9 and under.
The estimates, calculated by researchers in the UK, used aggregate data on cases and deaths in mainland China. Unlike other estimates, however, they adjusted for undiagnosed cases and the number of people in each age group of a population.

Covid 19 cases and death rates have fallen substantially here in Canada since January and around the world. Despite the fact that only 2% of the Canadian population has been vaccinated, why would the majority of people want to get a vaccination for something that has a high survival rate without any specialized treatment?

Vaccination would make sense for people in a high risk group but your death rate argument does not appear to be convincing enough? Your argument that vaccines will have an impact on cases and deaths does not appear to hold up either because here in Canada we don't have any vaccines with only 2% being vaccinated and we run out last week. So how do you and the experts bring this around when cases and deaths have been on a rapid downhill slide without vaccines?
Go ahead, James, cancel vaccine programs in Canada! Good luck to you!

Meanwhile we are going to abolish those deaths, streets with freezer trucks of corpses, packed UCU’s and thousands of people with permanent multi organ and brain damage from SARS Co-2.

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
Go ahead, James, cancel vaccine programs in Canada! Good luck to you!

Meanwhile we are going to abolish those deaths, streets with freezer trucks of corpses, packed UCU’s and thousands of people with permanent multi organ and brain damage from SARS Co-2.

Asher
Nobody wants to buy the first year production model of anything. Trying to convince people to get a vaccination for something they may feel is not necessary based on the science of fear will not work either.
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Nobody wants to buy the first year production model of anything. Trying to convince people to get a vaccination for something they may feel is not necessary based on the science of fear will not work either.
Trying to convince people not to get vaccinated for something they feel is necessary because they trust the science will not work either.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Nobody wants to buy the first year production model of anything. Trying to convince people to get a vaccination for something they may feel is not necessary based on the science of fear will not work either.
Well, in Israel, shortly, enough will be immunized that they are now opening up.

Israel, not Canada is the test bed for all these for and against ideas.

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
Trying to convince people not to get vaccinated for something they feel is necessary because they trust the science will not work either.
I don't need to convince people of anything they can figure it out for themselves as you can see from the pictures.
DSC_8737_00001.jpg
 
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James Lemon

Well-known member
Just because a person make one remarkable achievement, doesn’t make him/her a source of universal truth!
What has your famous hero Dr. Fauci invented apart from contributions to basic and clinical research on the pathogenesis and treatment of immune-mediated and infectious diseases?

Mullis also invented other things including a 100% effective treatment for Anthrax.

Mullis also invented a UV-sensitive plastic that changes color in response to light.

He founded Altermune LLC in 2011 to pursue new ideas on the immune system. Mullis described the company's novel technology in a presentation:

It is a method using specific synthetic chemical linkers to divert an immune response from its nominal target to something completely different which you would right now like to be temporarily immune to. Let's say you just got exposed to a new strain of the flu. You're already immune to alpha-1,3-galactosyl-galactose bonds. All humans are. Why not divert a fraction of those antibodies to the influenza strain you just picked up? A chemical linker synthesized with an alpha-1,3-gal-gal bond on one end and a DNA aptamer devised to bind specifically to the strain of influenza you have on the other end will link anti-alpha-Gal antibodies to the influenza virus and presto!--you have fooled your immune system into attacking the new virus.
In a TED Talk, Mullis describes how the US Government paid $500,000 for Mullis to use this new technology against Anthrax, which worked. The treatment was 100% effective, compared to the previous Anthrax treatment which was 40% effective.

Another proof-of-principle of this technology, re-targeting pre-existing antibodies to the surface of a pathogenic strep bacteria using an alpha-gal modified aptamer ("alphamer"), was published in 2015 in collaboration with scientists at the University of California, San Diego. Mullis was inspired to fight this particular strep bacteria because it had killed his friend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kary_Mullis
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
What Fauci has done in basic research and leadership in times of crisis puts him head and shoulders above most other citizens of the planet.

if there was a survey, youvelujd find that the vast majority of Americans admire Fauci and the vast majority of Canadians want a vaccine agains SARS Cov-2.

I am happy to read about your business man’s technical achievement. When I have done that will comment.

Asher
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
I don't need to convince people of anything they can figure it out for themselves as you can see from the pictures.
View attachment 7200
She'e damn right! 2  659  578 dead people in the world (reported only), that's far enough, although the number will increase unless a vast majority get vaccinated before new variants arise (one more English variant has been discovered)
It is essential to stay alive.
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
She'e damn right! 2  659  578 dead people in the world (reported only), that's far enough, although the number will increase unless a vast majority get vaccinated before new variants arise (one more English variant has been discovered)
It is essential to stay alive.
Past predictions reported that over 2 million people would die in the U.S and tens of millions would die in a pandemic that was compared to the Spanish flu, the deadliest epidemic in modern times.

Deaths.png

There is no evidence to support your claim that any of them cause much more serious illness for the vast majority of people who become infected.
As with the original version, the risk is highest for people who are elderly or have significant underlying health conditions.
All viruses mutate over time and it is expected that the COVID-19 virus will evolve and change. Not all mutations are of concern.

Table.png

There has been a consistent decline in the number of new COVID-19 cases and deaths without the help of people being vaccinated.




Starting February 1, 2021, laboratory test indicators are based on the number of laboratory tests performed and the percentage of tests positive. These data replace previous metrics based on unique individuals tested and provide a more accurate measure of test positivity and promote greater standardization in reporting across Canada. The proportion of tests positive is expected to decrease compared with previous person-based methods, as all tests will be included in the calculation, including new tests on the same person over time.

Screenshot 2021-03-16 073433.png
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
James
That graph is not a guide to anything!

As tests become inexpensive, freely available and not restricted to those who are ill, of course positivity decreases!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
James
That graph is not a guide to anything!

As tests become inexpensive, freely available and not restricted to those who are ill, of course positivity decreases!

Asher
You should write the Pope or tell Justin about it because it comes from a government website and let them know. Do you have a valid point to make? I would think the more people that are tested the rate would go up not down if the virus is spreading like wild fire. Covid cases are falling globally look it up for yourself.

There have been over 25,996,052 tests performed for COVID-19 in Canada. This corresponds to a test rate of 684,012 per 1 million people. Of all tests performed, 3.7% have been found to be positive.
 
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James Lemon

Well-known member
She'e damn right! 2  659  578 dead people in the world (reported only), that's far enough, although the number will increase unless a vast majority get vaccinated before new variants arise (one more English variant has been discovered)
It is essential to stay alive.


Collateral damage and disruptions to health services caused by COVID-19 have reversed progress on a range of other global health priorities.

You’re going to see relatively low mortality from COVID itself and relatively high mortality from other non-COVID consequences .

https://www.devex.com/news/will-global-health-learn-from-covid-19-collateral-damage-98995

I think that what she means Nicolas.
 
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