A bit more of my friendly dissent:
Nicolas Claris said:
I think we've tried to set up OPF as an initiative for open discussions and exchanges about photography(ies).
I still don't see the need for separated rooms depending of the "level" of photographers.
I would repeat: then why not one for blacks, one for women etc.
Our differences including the level and skills one are the magic of OPF. The magic is that it works
Well, but then, Nicolas, why have any rooms at all? Why not only threads?
The rooms are useful because they're like a table of contents, or even--at the thread level--like an index. The interests of the set of photographers at OPF are both wide and deep--and, yes, I would say, high. Three-dimensional.
Maybe I am one-of-a-kind, and there is no one lurking--only reading, never posting--who came here with such a dearth of basic skills and such a lack of vocabulary with which to discuss those skills as I did.
A forum which clearly identified me, every time I posted, as a beginner would have lessened some of the private misery I felt when I first arrived at this huge cocktail party that seemed to be populated mostly by close friends who were also experts.
I can't count the number of PMs I had from Asher--although I saved every last one to my hard drive--saying I had posted in the wrong forum for my best chance at getting answers or help, or that my comments were OT and he was starting another thread for them, or the number of public reminders I had about trimming what I quoted to keep the thread lean and easy to read--and those not just from Asher!
I would have felt far less like I was making a mess and getting in everyone's way if I could have spilled all the milk and ink and strewn all the crumbs in one room for a couple of weeks, until I got my feet under me and a handle on what was needed to participate to my own best advantage.
So, if it's only me, there's no need for a Beginner's Corner. Because I have mostly learned what to do by now.
Mary will not convince me that when she wants to post somewhere, she won't.
Because she did.
She did because we have no uniforms.
No, I did
despite the fact there were no uniforms. I can't remember how many nights that first week or two that I went to sleep with a firm resolve never to post here again. Several times I even considered leaving. What kept me from doing that was my lifetime of living by the principle of not being a quitter.
I did try to stay objective about my public face here--never to write when in a "down" mood for instance.
It is not easy to join OPF knowing only one person there, and not even having told that one person that you planned to sign up before actually doing that.
Far scarier than just moving into a new town.
AFAIK, when creating OPF, we didn't have the idea to create a kind of Academy.
I do hate dogmatisms
I have no truth to spread but ideas to share.
It's not about dogmatisms or "Truth" with a capital T. It's about vocabulary and experience from which the newcomer at OPF who is also possessed only of beginner-level skills and vocabulary in photography--how that kind of person can be made most comfortable and made to feel most welcome for the first few days of being a new member.
I wish Mary, you, Ben Lifson, Alain Briot, Don Lashier, Ray West, Rainer, Dierk, all others in the same open and large office room (the one with half height walls so when you stand-up you see 360°).
Sure. It doesn't have to be a room. It can be a corner.
A corner with quarter-height walls, so one can see over them sitting down. And with closed-circuit TVs that show what's going on in all the other rooms. And a wide, unobstructed opening into a corridor leading to the other fora and those little footprints color-coded on the floor to show the way--like in some big office buildings or hospital complexes.
I wish to share and possibly help others, I dont want to go to school.
Nor as a teacher neither as a pupil.
I wouldn't spend that much time on such closedphotographyforums…
Walls are hiding the reality. Open and hidden are kind of contradiction.
No wall for me please.
I know. We're not talking about walls. We''re talking about a safe spot for the new kitten that's just strayed in. Where there's always a senior member paying attention, ready to give immediate reassurance and help.
But, as I said to Ray in another post, the problem of making a newcomer who has only beginning-level photography skills and vocabulary feel comfortable and welcomed--this problem doesn't have to be solved with a new forum.
It *could* be solved by more immediate and continuing attention, if the beginner has the courage to clearly identify his status and keep on identifying it in whatever forum he posts. But I think everyone will not do that. So, how can the fellow members recognize and meet the need--especially since it's easy for such a new member-beginner to get in the way by choosing the wrong forum or thread to post in.
It's not really a momentous matter. Things can go on just as they are now and eventually all the human relationships will sort themselves out.
I just thought, with Asher, that there could be a more streamlined way to accomplish it.
That's all, Nicolas. < she said affectionately >
Mary