The iPhone has wiped out the digital camera market (news)

[Mike Bedford]

Just saw this today, though it's been posted in various places over the last few days. I suppose this would apply mainly to non-professional photographers, though there might be some creep into the pro market:

"Whenever people want to make fun of a stodgy old corporation that couldn’t see the future, they love referencing the camera maker Kodak. But Kodak wasn’t the only old dog taken out by the digital camera revolution: All camera companies have now fallen to the iPhone. Last year, only 9m cameras were sold, down from 122m in 2010, per tech journalist (and Gigamon founder) Om Malik.

Meanwhile, Apple moved 200m+ iPhones in 2020
While there are countless other camera-enabled smartphones, the iPhone -- which has sold 1B+ units since launching in 2007 -- clearly leads the pack.

Here’s how Malik thinks digital cameras will shake out moving forward:

·Big players: At <10m units per year, the 4 big digital camera makers (Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Sony) will be fighting over scraps. Sony is best positioned to thrive, but not as a camera maker: It supplies camera sensors to everyone, including Apple.

·Niche players: Super high-end cameras (Leica, Hasselblad, Phase One) will maintain share with pros and super-hobbyists.
As for Kodak, the company was last in the news for potential insider trading when the Trump administration awarded it $765m to make COVID-related pharmaceuticals."

 

[Asher Kelman]

Those companies selling medical optics and robotics need to supply digital recordings. They still use ordinary 35 mm DSLRs and now Mirrorless camera roll go with their very expensive offerings. However, it’s pretty easy at their whim to phase out cameras, given all the recording modules they already have.

Pentax, Leica and Zeiss are at the top plus companies that use other companies products by adapters.

They don’t need a huge Pro and Enthusiast loyal photographer following to make it worthwhile.

But in the next camera design revolution, the cellphone makers will use software advances that will allow them to migrate and even create markets we never imagined!

Asher

 

[James Lemon]

Kodak acquired Ofoto a photo sharing site long before Facebook and Instagram existed. Instead of going the Instagram route they chose to use Ofoto to try and get people to print digital images. One of many blunders of waisted money along the way.

 

[Jerome Marot]

I think we already had a discussion on the subject of smartphones and photography: https://openphotographyforums.com/f...ntrol-the-menu-you-control-the-choices.21749/

Kodak acquired Ofoto a photo sharing site long before Facebook and Instagram existed. Instead of going the Instagram route they chose to use Ofoto to try and get people to print digital images. One of many blunders of wasted money along the way.

This is what all photography sites were trying to do at the time. It made sense, because people did not have portable color screens to show the pictures around. Interestingly, that strategy did not fail because people did not want to print their pictures, it failed because color printer manufacturers were perceived as a better alternative.

 

[James Lemon]

I think we already had a discussion on the subject of smartphones and photography: https://openphotographyforums.com/f...ntrol-the-menu-you-control-the-choices.21749/



This is what all photography sites were trying to do at the time. It made sense, because people did not have portable color screens to show the pictures around. Interestingly, that strategy did not fail because people did not want to print their pictures, it failed because color printer manufacturers were perceived as a better alternative.

If they did not have portable color screens then where did they plan on people being able to find their printing services?

 

[Jerome Marot]

If they did not have portable color screens then where did they plan on people being able to find their printing services?

Non-portable color screens.

 

[James Lemon]

Non-portable color screens.

Kodak had all the technology, the ability to transfer from camera to computer, they were well aware of photo sharing, and invested first digital camera. Technology did not kill Kodak.

 

[Pao Dolina]

iPhone & Android siphoned almost all sales of consumer digital still cameras away from camera brands.

People who buy digital still cameras since smartphones came out fall into these categories

- professionals who get paid to take photos/videos

- enthusiasts with discretionary $$$

Key events of digital still cameras

- 2007: 1st iPhone released
- 2008: 1st Android released
- 2008: All Time High worldwide shipments of Point & Shoots was 110,070,168
- 2010: 2nd highest worldwide shipment of Point & Shoots was 108,576,298
- 2022: Forecast for worldwide shipment of Point & Shoots is 2,560,000

Video below shows the year by year worldwide shipments of products with cameras built into them.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Brilliant and succinct reports!

As for retailers, companies like Adorama and BHPhotovideo are thriving as they and a few other megastores seem to have absorbed the remaining camera market!

Those cameras that are sold will have to offer much more for the photographer than the e clement smart phone pictures that billions of folk now possess!

Asher

 

[Pao Dolina]

Brilliant and succinct reports!

As for retailers, companies like Adorama and BHPhotovideo are thriving as they and a few other megastores seem to have absorbed the remaining camera market!

Those cameras that are sold will have to offer much more for the photographer than the e clement smart phone pictures that billions of folk now possess!

Asher

When I was training in the US back in 2008 I was applying to open an account with E*TRADE to indulge my being an Apple fanboy since 2000. The documentary requirements were daunting and I wasn't smart enough to ask my friend training with & living with me at the time to sort it out. To think he was already investing in the Philippine Stock Exchange before he graduated high school.

If I did this my investment then would be 4,000 Apple Inc shares that would be 112,000 Apple Inc shares today.

Having a ~$100k annual dividend is an awesome safety net for the last decade. Work can become optional if you live in a poor country like the Philippines.

Millenials may likely never buy a dedicate still camera when 2040 & onward occurs as I expect iPhone & Android to make headway to close in the gap on what mirrorless cameras can do that 2022 smartphone models cannot do.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Pao,

Pro cameras will have each pixel and individual camera with its own voltage readout and firmware.

Dynamic range will be phenomenal.

Sony, Samsung and others making smart phone chips, will be able to put this know how into MF cameras of phenomenal capability!

Asher

 

[Deleted member 55]

Smart phones did not replace point & shoot cameras they are point & shoot cameras!

 

[Asher Kelman]

Smart phones did not replace point & shoot cameras they are point & shoot cameras!

Point and shoot cameras have an entirely different form factor and are designed as small versions of 35mm chimeras. They typically have a manual and auto focus and many other creative choices for the photographer.

Smart phone is an entirely different consumer device aimed at every member of the family over 5 years of age and a secondary function of a mobile phone. Phones are used primarily for communication and the cameras 99.999% for memories although they are good enough for serious photography.

They require zero knowledge of photographic theory or principles to get excellent images. The is an entirely different and accidentally cancelled the need for most point and shoots.

Companies like the Ricoh, Sony and Leica have elite expensive superior prograde point and shoots that deliver pictures superior to mole phones and they will survive as niche products costing 3-5 times more than smart phones.

So although on first hearing that cell phones are point and shoots, that’s not the case, as point and shoot are designed for folks who identify as photographers and theta the sole job they do and do better than the tiny cameras in cell phones.

Asher

 

[Jerome Marot]

Pro cameras will have each pixel and individual camera with its own voltage readout and firmware.

Dynamic range will be phenomenal.

Dynamic range is also limited by optics and even by the signal itself. Taking that into account, present digital cameras are adequate in all but the rarest situations.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Dynamic range is also limited by optics and even by the signal itself. Taking that into account, present digital cameras are adequate in all but the rarest situations.

Of course, but wildlife photographers would love to be able to get that lion low in the grass in the shadows of an overhanging tree as well as the black and white zebras in the bright sun by the water hole!

The pixels in the dark zones will be able to accept more photons before shutting off.

This will reduce noise.

One could also have a combination of fast and slow shutter for waterfalls to get both droplets and milky water.

One could paint with one’s finger on the screen as to where the fast shutter should be!

Or thr AI of the camera would do it for us.

There will be so many improvements in lenses too transferred from the base of billions of smart phones!

Asher

 

[Jerome Marot]

It seems that we are not understanding each other, Asher. The lens will not see the lion in the shadows because of the glare from the zebras in the bright sun. So whatever sensor is used, that area will lack detail.

Modern lenses are quite good, almost miraculous considering lens optics is a science which have not changed a lot since a century, but they also have a limited dynamic range. All physical systems have a limited dynamic range.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Dynamic range is also limited by optics and even by the signal itself. Taking that into account, present digital cameras are adequate in all but the rarest situations.

Of course, but wildlife photographers would love to be able to get that lion low in the grass in the shadows of an overhanging tree as well as the black and white zebras in the bright sun by the water hole!

The pixels in the dark zones will be able to accept more photons before shutting off.

This will reduce noise.

One could also have a combination of fast and slow shutter for waterfalls to get both droplets and milky water.

One could paint with one’s finger on the screen as to where the fast shutter should be!

Or thr AI of the camera would do it for us.

There will be so many improvements in lenses too transferred from the base of billions of smart phones!

Asher

 

[Pao Dolina]

Every 4 years Canon needs to convince you to buy again.

From my point of view bodies last 1 decade & lenses 2 decades of enthusiasts use.

 

[Deleted member 55]

Point and shoot cameras have an entirely different form factor and are designed as small versions of 35mm chimeras. They typically have a manual and auto focus and many other creative choices for the photographer.

Smart phone is an entirely different consumer device aimed at every member of the family over 5 years of age and a secondary function of a mobile phone. Phones are used primarily for communication and the cameras 99.999% for memories although they are good enough for serious photography.

They require zero knowledge of photographic theory or principles to get excellent images. The is an entirely different and accidentally cancelled the need for most point and shoots.

Companies like the Ricoh, Sony and Leica have elite expensive superior prograde point and shoots that deliver pictures superior to mole phones and they will survive as niche products costing 3-5 times more than smart phones.

So although on first hearing that cell phones are point and shoots, that’s not the case, as point and shoot are designed for folks who identify as photographers and theta the sole job they do and do better than the tiny cameras in cell phones.

Asher

With the iPhone you point and shoot!

Most smart phone user’s have no idea how to set anything on it’s camera that makes it a point and shoot!

A Holga is a medium format point and shoot camera!

Size has nothing to do with it!

A large format pinhole camera is a point and shoot camera!

A Fuji GA645ZI is a 220/120 medium format zoom point and shoot camera!

A disposable 35mm camera is also a point and shoot camera!

A Canon EOS 5DMK4 set to full auto is a point and shoot camera!

 

[Asher Kelman]

With the iPhone you point and shoot!

Most smart phone user’s have no idea how to set anything on it’s camera that makes it a point and shoot!

A Holga is a medium format point and shoot camera!

Size has nothing to do with it!

A large format pinhole camera is a point and shoot camera!

A Fuji GA645ZI is a 220/120 medium format zoom point and shoot camera!

A disposable 35mm camera is also a point and shoot camera!

A Canon EOS 5DMK4 set to full auto is a point and shoot camera!

Will,

That is perfectly fine for your own understanding but has nothing to do with marketing plans manufacturers have for different groups!

People who buy smart phones would never do so if it lacked messaging.

However, what the industry understands by “Point and Shoot” is different from your scientific definition!

It is a class of cameras as shown on Samys or B&H websites!

That view is also followed by those who review “Point and Shoot” cameras. No authority except for yourself includes smartphones or professional cameras with interchangeable lenses!

You may be able to self-justify your private terminology scientifically, but as of know the camera stores don’t use it!

Asher

 

[Deleted member 55]

Wrong point and shoot is a statement of fact!

 

[Asher Kelman]

Wrong point and shoot is a statement of fact!

I have no argument with that opinion but it has nothing to do with the marketing segment everyone recognizes that excludes pro interchangeable lens cameras and cell phones!

 

[Pao Dolina]

Will,

What Asher is trying to say is that what Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc categorized specific cameras that cannot detach the lens from.

It is like differentiating a sedan from a coupe or SUV. They're all cars but they have specializations.

What was observed and shared by Mike was that smartphones from Apple, Samsung, etc have diverted consumer $$$ from consumer cameras that have fixed lenses & interchangeable lenses to an iPhone or Galaxy.

It is like how 8 tracks got replaced by audio cassette tapes then audio CDs to streaming services.

Having said that it appears to be immaterial to you as you already listed all the nice cameras that one can ever own. So need to dwell on what I or others think. ;-)

 

[Deleted member 55]

What is happening is people already have a point & shoot camera in there cell phone so they don’t feel the need to spend more money on a separate camera!

By the way SUV is marketing BS to sell station wagons for more money!

SUV=station wagon!

As I have said there is no such thing as a SUV there are only station wagons with marketing hype!

 

[Pao Dolina]

Convertibles are just 2 door sedans with optional roofs!

 

[Deleted member 55]

Wrong not optional, articulated!