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  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

The President and Covid

Chris Calohan

Well-known member
Is it really within reason to think he could test in the morning and show symptoms that evening and leave the hospital the following Monday?
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I checked. He tested positive on Friday, Oc.t 2 and went back to the white house on Wednesday,, Oct. 7. I suppose he went for a test because he had some symptoms.

It is a short time, but not unheard of.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I checked. He tested positive on Friday, Oc.t 2 and went back to the white house on Wednesday,, Oct. 7. I suppose he went for a test because he had some symptoms.

It is a short time, but not unheard of.
But he was dosed up on steroids and who knows what else, .....possibly amphetamines!

His actions and speech when he returned were also over the top, more like Mussolini returning to adoration by his fascists than man having faced SARS CoV-2!

Not exactly standard treatment:rushed to the hospital by helicopter, served by 14 expert physicians, got experimental drugs unavailable to others with the same state of disease and called Anthony Fauci, (who he mocks for everyone else’s care), to get his personally tailored advice from the worlds most published and revered expert on viral disease!

Now he says we are “rounding the curve” and sees happiness and fresh air ahead of us......

......but NOT that unstoppable freight train of SARS CoV-2, that has already mowed down 250,000 American lives!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Not exactly standard treatment:rushed to the hospital by helicopter, served by 14 expert physicians, got experimental drugs unavailable to others with the same state of disease
If we had a treatment, whatever treatment it would be, that would be able to cure covid-19 in 5 days for everyone, that would be in the news.

Therefore, whatever treatment was given to Donald Trump and cured him in 5 days, will not work for everyone.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
He was not cured when he left hospital. He was however high on steroids. That’s a common response. It’s Unlikely he ever “needed” it or qualified for it according to what we knew and what the British published from their experimental use in ICU settings!

The steroids are given for a second wave of an overwhelming exaggerated immune response in various tissues including the lungs. No one suggested he was THAT sick, LOL!

To him, it was a magic “elixir” that he as President could get even though he didn’t qualify for it, according to published reports!

However, the buoyed feeling and self confidence to the nth is common with such medication often associated with paranoia. He had to be reported off it, but likely as not, hisWhite House Phycician, actual not an MD, but a trained American “Osteopath“, could have more slowly tapered his dose as he liked the stuff as it makes one feel better.

So, no, he was not recovered in 5 days nor could he walk on water or fly, But he was certain that he’d used super powers to defeat the “Chinese Virus”!

Those who died? Losers!

Asher
 

Alex Johnson

New member
First, it's not a fact that Trump was really cured in 5 days. It seems to me that they could well pretend that the president is healthy and at work. On the eve of the elections, he could not afford to stay in the hospital for a long time. I'm not saying that he immediately returned 100% to work, but some part of the work was done. Those who came into contact with the sick Trump could wear high-quality FPP-3 respirators so as not to get infected. Secondly, we do not know how each of us would have acted upon the news of a pandemic. Either say terrifying things and sow panic, or say that everything is not so scary and somehow calm people down. Politics is complicated. We can criticize or approve of actions, but there is no one right solution to keep everyone happy. We do not know which option we would have chosen if we were in Trump's place.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
First, it's not a fact that Trump was really cured in 5 days. It seems to me that they could well pretend that the president is healthy and at work.
Donald Trump was present at a campaign rally in Florida on Oct, 12. Which makes it 10 days.

Secondly, we do not know how each of us would have acted upon the news of a pandemic.
I certainly know how I have acted upon the news of this pandemic, sometimes in February. I suppose you meant "how we would have acted were we in charge of a large country". And the point is: if one chooses that kind of responsibility, one is supposed to be able to react appropriately in such times.

And, quite frankly, this is the most puzzling part and this is not just the USA. Let us compare the reaction of the West with the one in China.

China was hit first and indeed tried to minimise the matter at the beginning, sometimes in December. Comes January and the world knows. January 25, Chinese new year: the country is locked down, everybody needs to put on a mask (which means they had masks around) and they build a specialised hospital in Wuhan in a week. From that point, they manage to keep the situation under control, they keep testing their population regularly. Meaning: they have protective equipment, masks, tests and hospitals. The Chinese economy is doing well, BTW.

Compare with the situation in the USA. Mid-March: cases in New York. Nobody is prepared, lack of protective equipment and tests, while the USA had the whole month of February to do something. Travel ban from Europe no earlier than mid March: same story, the USA could at least have tested air travellers in February and ordered a few days of home quarantine for them. End of March: Spring break as a whole country superspreader event. April, coffins pile up in Hart Island.

Note that Europe is not doing much better. We are now locking down as if everyone were surprised of a second wave. Everyone knew there would be a second wave. Did we use the time between June and October to improve our hospitals, organise schools not to be spreader events or else? I don't think so.
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Thanks Jérôme!

I know my late father in law would have done the same as Trump: try to ignore it until the last moment or shift responsibility to others.

He did that when I reported that Edison Electric was polluting Tampa Bay with some purple, orange and green chemicals I saw in a mile long plume from my window seat as we were descending to land.

Only a year later when oll the fish floated up in a thick mass of “Red Tide” algae bloom, (taking all the oxygen), did he call me to denounce “F$cking Edison for killing his fish!

Trump is of the same scientific ignorance and resentment and he rejected Fauci but still wanted his help for himself when he was hospitalized!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
So, Asher, is this new vaccine from Pfizer the real deal or are more trials needed?
It’s real! I’d take it.

The scientific molecular engineering has no errors. It’s just we didn’t know that the brilliant idea would actually work!

There could be surprises in new rare side effect that only appear when millions get inoculated!

But I am impressed with the sheer simplicity of the design.

Remember there are other vaccines on their way. I just hope we can get organized and stop the slaughter!

Distribution with dry ice is not really so difficult!

Looking forward to getting a dose if it gets approved!

Asher

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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
But our basic behavior with social distancing and masks has to continue for a year!

That is the main requirement right now!

If Republicans want to be loyal to Trump, be my guest, but they have to unite behind thecscience and get real on SARS CoV-2.

Right now I see another 200,000 dead in the USA by the end of the year!

Asher
 

Tim Rucci

Member
With all due respect, 200,000 more dead by year end averages out to 3,846 deaths each day from now until January 1st. Don't you think that's a bit pessimistic? I'm not buying it.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
With all due respect, 200,000 more dead by year end averages out to 3,846 deaths each day from now until January 1st. Don't you think that's a bit pessimistic? I'm not buying it.
Tim,

In envisaging how Cities, Counties and States measure and allocate precious resources, there’s a critical demand for the best numbers to know what beds need be created, who should be hired and what budgets should be raised to pay for this increased cost.

if we underestimate the rise in pressure, that's at our peril!

Look at the vertical climb in daily SARS CoV-2 fatalities! We’re now over 1,000 per day, soon it will be 1500 and then 3000 a day. That’s how indoor spread in winter works! It could be far worse. We have no idea who becomes a
super-spreader

So far 240,000 deaths and just 160,000 more will reach the projected figure of 400,000!


We can cross our fingers and pray it’s better than that, but what we’re are hearing: simply trends!
 
Just look the latest graphs of new infections, it’s like a fighter jet doing a multi-g vertical climb!

Asher
Whether it's mainly down to improved treatment or just the fact the most vulnerable have already gone the death rate in advanced countries does seem to be very much lower in the second wave. Known cases is certainly going through the roof but there's reason to hope the death rate won't be as bad. Of course optimism is no excuse for ignoring simple hygiene based advice like masks/social distancing.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
What are your opinions on tRump's newest "expert" doctor, Adams?
Chris,

Obviously he’s a fool.

No expert, worth that name, ventures to direct massive scale, immediate life and death consequential decisions, (in a field they are not at all qualified), when there are ample specialists to take that responsibility.

What has made me successful in my entire life, is recognition of where I have zero competence and hiring the expertise to fill the gap.

Trump has had great policy decisions but has gotten them lost in a jumble of foolish attitudes that make his power a tragic cartoon of misdirected effort!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Those were my feeling exactly...and yet 72M idiots voted for the clown in chief.
I have spent a lot of time reading the Sunday sermons of one of our members. He calls out and condemns my voting for Biden, (which I didn’t as I have my wife vote for me so as not to cancel out whatever she chooses) and holds me responsible for murdering millions of human beings aborted by folk Biden & Harris support!

The guys who drilled out a solid block of steel for me to make the hollow column for my sculpture to be installed in Long Beach CA, also voted for Trump. He thinks Biden is un-American and Hates him for supporting the black athletes who kneel during theNational Anthem.

Today, I rented a fork lift to move the steel column to bolt it on to a concrete base. The dispatcher votes for Trump. Things like “minimum wages and health care“ have no traction. I basically think that this is all mostly religious animus stoked by the evangelicals and bigotry released by Trumps encouragement.

These blue collar workers, it seems,tgst I talk to, only see enemies and disgust in the (female or worse, black), faces that dominate the “Fake News” they see in CNN, ABC and MSNBC!

Chris, I am certain it’s all essentially “Birthetism” joined arm in arm with “Jesus salvation against sin & Satan” that requires one

1. to reject masks, as only God decides life and death and

2. support Trump as he appoints anti-homosexual and anti-Abortion Supreme Court Judges, and so is a “sinner” but doing the Lords work!

To half of America, social issues, (whether we encourage police accountability, universal health care, a minimal wage, environmental standards and the like), are of no consequence compared to having the unchristian satanic non white Americans getting access to equal power!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
What I stumble on, is the glorification of Trump as a special instrument of heaven to pack the US Supreme Court with Anti Liberal Judges. The first goal is to ban all abortions!


Still my OPF pastor friend is convinced I will be judged a supporter of mass murder!

Sorry, I don’t believe in any Satan and didn’t vote for such a figure or even Biden! I give my vote to my wife so I don’t accidentally neutralize her wishes!

I just want to celebrate ANY people who try to bring healing to the world. Christianity can do that very well, without foolishly opposing masks or demonizing folk like Biden and Harris who support diversity!


Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I think we really have a problem when faith trumps rational thinking. But this problem is neither new nor restricted to Republicans or berthetism, whatever that word means.

I make efforts to avoid being tracked on the Internet, so that I can access both right-wing and left-wing social media without the "algorithm" restricting me to a single, pre-chewed, opinion. I would say that liberals and conservatives are just as quick at silencing any opinion which does not fit their chosen narrative. In either circles, I almost refrain from posting anything for fear of upsetting some of the few who control the narrative and turn the mob against me.

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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Jérôme,

Education doesn’t seem to beat simple memes infecting us with irrational ideas!

Here in the USA, most folk are pretty ignorant but religious, firmly believing in a being, a “prince of Evil”, Satan, “sin” and need for salvation to escape perpetual torture in furnaces of a demonic afterlife!

What to me is flabbergasting is that while I extend myself to the nth to accommodate the self-righteous convinced Christian salvation driven folk, they cannot not make allowances for anyone’s else’s opinion. Their “proofs” come from quotes from the writings of the New Testsment which, taken as the unaltered pure words of God, become “unassailable proof“ of any argument one could imagine.

I have no objection to referring to such writings, but only within an argument centered within the Universe of that text.
So if one objects to folk not wearing masks, then one is attacking freedom of worship, as they want to pack churches and sing to celebrate their path to God!

If one votes Democrat in the USA then one is following Satan. If one talks science, that’s arrogance, as God decides ones fate and we have zero influence on the outcome!

I don’t just pick on Christians. My late father refused to have Life Insurance as it meant he had no faith in God to provide for him in sickness!

I wish there was a formula to accommodate the personal choices of ardent believers without encroaching on our Health.

Right now, in Israel, the most fervently religious Jews suffer the most COVID deaths as they pack prayer and study places without masks, relying on God and divine providence.

Just like the evangelical Christians, the Hasidim, explain that only God decides who will die!

The unfortunate facts are that these groups are NEVER sealed in some hermetic bubble but can act as a source of spread of virus to others outside their communities!

If they were in China, not the USA or Israel, I’m pretty sure they would be in re-education camps, chanting rules of hygiene by now and “available” as organ donors to those who are in need and can pay the going price!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
You seem to conflate the problem with religion. I can understand why you would to that, but this way of thinking happens outside of religion. Republicans are not always religious in the US, yet the non-christian ones can be just as vocal in repressing "communism" (whatever they mean with that word). Present day European leftists are often atheists, yet they behave just as irrationally when one speaks of "far right" (again: whatever that means).

Maybe it is clearer outside of politics. Taking sports as an example, Europe needed to edits strong rules during football (soccer) matches or some fans would literally murder each others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_violent_spectator_incidents_in_sports
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Not quite conflation, Jérôme:

It IS the same phenomenon: tribal/team self-identification!

Trump tells his tribe “Masks are foolish“! Now half the population won’t wear one as a basic inherent right of “FREEDOM”, whatever that means!

A pastor says “Masks are irrelevant in Church, as God will do what he planned to do whether you wear it or not!”:

Now another section shuns masks as they self-identify with the Pastor!

In a Democracy, weren’t we depending on the people voting their minds?

We seem to end up with folk voting their memes, instead!

Brain-infestation with tribal “memes“ seem to be mostly what we waste our riches on each election cycle.

We had, this year, much of the working class voting for a rich bigot and against minimal working wage and universal health care. So the vote “tribally”, en masse even AGAINST their own basic self-interest!

That’s the flaw of democracy! How do we get folk to be educated enough to think!

Asher
 

Chris Calohan

Well-known member
I see the real problem in these other siders who do not believe in science are okay with America becoming an oligarchy or perhaps as tRump would prefer, a Monarchy whereas he can pass on leadership via familial lineage (refer back to his original want to have Ivanka as his VP). This was his plan all along and with Biden's win, which he did not even contemplate, the plans are thwarted. Me, I fear Biden will be assassinated either before or shortly after taking office and so will Harris and Pelosi...we no longer can enjoy the concept of fairness in either life or elections. Just look at Lindsey Graham's attempt to thwart the Georgia elections and Rudy's ever frivolous attempts to overturn elections...if they can't get the presidency back, I would not put it past them to use whatever means necessary. In goes back to the golden rule: "Those who have all the gold, make all the rules and rule #1 is "I shall have all the gold, and I shall do whatever it takes to keep it. " America is in for deep and troubling times because tRump is the boy who wants to be king and outside his formed bubble, the creditors and courtrooms are eagerly awaiting his arrival. it is not a place he wants to be.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I am not saying that you are wrong, Asher, I am saying this "religion/tribal" thing is more universal than you appear to believe. There is a large proportion of people who are motivated by such things. Expecting them to suddenly change because we would like them to is futile... and not that democratic as they want this tribal feeling of being in a team and exercising violence on the others.

People go to football matches with crow bars and clubs, because they enjoy committing violence. They know it is illegal, they know they'll probably get caught and pay for it, yet some do it anyway, because the appeal is stronger than the risk.

This is perfectly well understood and politicians, by the very nature of their job, are the ones most likely to want to use that system to their advantage.
 

Chris Calohan

Well-known member
Another thing I notice as is with my wife's family, staunch Republicans, is that they will balk at any mention of universal healthcare, but readily accept Medicaid for their mentally challenged granddaughter and will go to the ER for the slightest sniffle or couch and avail themselves of Medicare covering all the costs...a strange dichotomy to people who also believe that only God can determine who will live or die..
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Me, I fear Biden will be assassinated either before or shortly after taking office and so will Harris and Pelosi...
You basically fear a coup in the US. Donald Trump is not able to start a coup, because he does not have the support from the US army. Not that he could not try, that I don't know. But he is unlikely to succeed without the support of the military, which goes to Biden.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Another thing I notice as is with my wife's family, staunch Republicans, is that they will balk at any mention of universal healthcare, but readily accept Medicaid for their mentally challenged granddaughter and will go to the ER for the slightest sniffle or couch and avail themselves of Medicare covering all the costs...a strange dichotomy to people who also believe that only God can determine who will live or die..

"Never underestimate the power of denial"​
 
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